In this week’s edition of Putting the human into technology, we speak to Foundation SP’s (FSP) Simon Grosse and Liz Rogers.
Putting the Human Into Technology With Simon Grosse and Liz Rogers
We spent an hour chatting about how FSP has dealt with the pandemic and the disruption of the last sixteen months or so.
It was a fantastic interview where Simon and Liz shared with us how people are at the heart of everything they do. This is handy given the podcast is called “Putting the human back into technology.”
Some of the Key Takeaways for us are
- When you live in your values, the advice is, pick an organisation where you can actually live those.
- People don’t come to work to do a rubbish job.
- People come to work to be able to thrive and gain experience, opportunities to develop. When you create that sort of environment, the power of that is, is just amazing.
- The culture is our strategy for sustainable growth
- The things that I’m most worried about at the moment is the long tail that’s gone with people’s well being, mental health, and the impact of not just not seeing family and friends.
- I worry about people being institutionalized and routined by remote work
- It’s the job of every single person, in this organization, to lead and live and breathe that culture and almost pay it forward
- If you get the people stuff, right, the rest of it will happen
- Ray Milland is Liz’s Great Uncle – he was known as Uncle Reg
We will run the format a little differently this week. We have summarised the text in previous posts, which we have done at a high level here. But we have included the transcript of Liz and Simon’s answers below, so if you prefer reading the interview, you can read the interview in full.
You can watch it on YouTube (Complete with transcript ) via this link.
You can listen on anchor and leading podcast platforms here
Transcript
Question 1: Tell me a little about what you do, your business, job role?
Simon Grosse
I’m Simon Grosse. I’m the CEO and co-founder of a company called foundation SP, but it’s a bit of a mouthful. So we’ll just call ourselves FSP. We’re a 100 person business based out of the UK and a presence in Spain and in that kind of digital transformation digital services space. So we work in Microsoft platforms with 365, Microsoft cloud-native development, data and AI and cyber.
We’ve been going for coming up nine years now.
Liz Rogers
Yeah, thanks, Gethyn. So my name is Liz Rogers. And I am the change lead at FSP. I’ve been with the organisation for three years this month. And I lead the change team. So we are the team that do all those people-focused activities for a project or delivery. So you know, the change journey implementation, the comms strategy, comms planning, comms, collateral creation, adoption, engagement activities. So really helping organisations drive that change and adoption of a new product or service within their business. So my background is in HR and organisation development. I do not have a tech background… So don’t ask me any tech questions or things I can’t answer. And, but you know, obviously, with an HR background, I understand that people space.
Question 2: How has the last year impacted your business?
Liz Rogers
Yeah, thanks, Mark. I think we transitioned well as an organisation. So if I focus on the internal stuff first, and you know, we went from being in the office on the 23rd of March, being out of the office on the 24th of March, I would say fairly seamlessly. We’ve got a hybrid model of working anyway, that we’ve perpetuated for years. So that’s helped. So I would do on average three days a week from home anyway, and, and be in the office on a fairly frequent basis and be on-site with clients more regularly. I think we transitioned quite well into that kind of new way of working. But I think, you know, that the challenge has been for all organisations, not just FSP, you know, maintaining employee engagement, maintaining our employee wellbeing, and making sure all the team are okay. And, the leadership team at FSP have worked hard to make sure we’ve been able to sustain that. So lots of conversations, lots of communications, lots of social type events, during the Day and after-work activities. And that’s been ably met so that we can maintain that sense of team.
We work in a very kind of matrix way anyway, when we deliver projects to customers. We’ve worked pretty seamlessly and in terms of how we’ve delivered our services and maintained that with our client base. Interestingly, at the start of the pandemic, I was thinking, Okay, what’s this going to from an employer’s point of view? What’s it going to look like? What’s this, this new environment going to feel like? From a customer point of view? So what are our customers going to experience going forward? And I think one of the things for me is, is, and I get, you know, Simon can talk about this as well, probably better than me, I kind of saw two different things happening. Some were kind of rabbit in the headlights. What are we going to do? and a bit of panic, lots of lots, lots of worry across everybody’s environments. Then that, they kind of went, Okay, take the breath, stop, we can do this, we can deliver this, you know, some customers are, like, well, we can’t run a business, you know, we’re just gonna shut everything down to the bare minimum, just keep going. And get through this period.
And then there were the customers we thought, you know, retail, for example, who you think, you know, this is real pressure. They’ve thrived, they’ve used the opportunity to drive digital transformation, did projects in their businesses, and did incredibly well through this.
And then, you know, we, we’ve had a lot of demand in the past sort of 15 months or so. And we’ve probably had the busiest year we’ve ever had, which is great…And also really, really demanding. But But yeah, there’s, you know, lots of conversations going on with the customers at the start of the pandemic about what does this mean to you? What kind of support can we give you? There were customers, who we ramped up very quickly for where we were, we were piloting teams, for example, and they were moving into that sort of space anyway, suddenly it became less of a pilot…we are delivering now, at pace, and it was properly, properly full on for them and us. So that change piece then obviously, it becomes incredibly important. I’ll shut up now. I suppose people from South Wales, we can talk a little bit later. Oh, yeah. Shut up. Simon, please have a go.
Simon Grosse
Yeah, sure. Well, I suppose the first thing that I would observe in the 15 months, I mean, firstly, it’s been a humbling year or so has an end. And although I’ll start, I’ll start with the positive in the, you know, I think we’ve come together as a business, we’ve looked after each other. We’ve been we’ve been in the boat together. And we’ve extended that in the way that we behave with our customers. So I’m, I’m, I’m proud of what we’ve done on that front.
And the businesses, Liz has said, but our biggest every year, but at the same time, that almost hasn’t felt like the most important thing during the last 15 months. It’s felt that, you know, suppose if you rewind, as Liz just did back to whenever it was the 23rd of March 2020. We were in the position where we were fearing for our business, you know, we were fearing because no one knew what the impact would be in the economy. No one knew.
Would we still be here? What would be happening with digital, we just didn’t know that.
And so we did some fairly rapid assessments. And we thought, look, worst case could be we lose 20% of our business overnight. And the reason for that word, you know, we’ve got clients across different sectors, but clients in retail clients and construction clients in transport, you’re thinking this is not good news. And sadly for them, in a lot of cases, it wasn’t good news, and albeit, some stuff might have been okay. And in furlough, there was lots of people that that hadn’t been okay. And so whenever I talk about our business, having, you know, been thriving and doing well it’s sort of tempered to some agree with, it has been a challenging year for lots of businesses and individuals. And so, but that said, we have done particularly well, and we have had to reinvent on lots of things. And as Liz said, it’s been an opportunity, as much as it has been setbacks.
The things that I’m most worried about these, you know, at the moment is the long tail that’s gone with people’s well being, you know, and mental health, and just generally the impact of not just not seeing family and friends, and that that isolation piece, but also the, you know, almost becoming institutionalised and routined by remote work and sitting on team sitting on zoom, and to somehow for that to be normal now. And and I don’t think it is. And I think we need a better balance and a better plan. And hopefully, we’re getting that, of course with the successful vaccine rollouts.
But yeah, I suppose part part of my answer is, yeah, great for the business. And yes, we’ve got through it. And yes, you know, we’ve pivoted and supported our customers in doing it, but I would equally be concerned about the, the impact of people and how they are and how they feel throughout. But I do think we’ve come together, particularly well, which I’m really happy about.
Question 3 How do “people” fit into your IT departments/business delivery model?
Simon Grosse
We’re a values-led organisation. And, you know, when we, when we got clarity, and committed to our values back in 2014, an early stage, we’ve never looked back and, and our values are not just things that appear on the wall, or the website, these are things that we actively, you know, live by, and, you know, living those values, you know, our family, of thinking about the win-win around success and being passionate about what we do is ultimately transmitting through having people’s back leading with empathy. Understanding that everybody’s all every single person that comes to work has got a family. And I think that’s a really important factor in how people fit into our organisation, where they are organisation.
The culture is our strategy for sustainable growth. And, you know, they are, of course, being a consultancy organisation, the people are our lifeblood, they’re the heart and soul of the organisation. And the bit that I was kind of alluding to around the how do we look out for people is that, we, I believe. With that though we’re not perfect, by the way, despite the, you know, the that winning great place to work in these different accolades, that kind of you reference there, we’re, we’re far from perfect, and we don’t get it right every time. And, I think, what we have managed to do is make a large part of life at FSP that is self managing and systemic within, you know, the employees that are part of it.
So it is just as much the job of every single person that’s part of this organisation to lead and live and breathe that culture and almost pay it forward. In the same way that I would, I don’t know, if you Liz would, you know, kind of agree with that, or, you know, add to that and in any way.
Liz Rogers
Yeah, I think so, you know, I’ve had the opportunity to work in lots of organisations in lots of different sectors. And, and I say this all the time to people joining FSP when we’re interviewing etcetera it is I’ve never worked anywhere, where the business is so aligned to its values. So you know, they drive what we do and how we work. I agree we’re not perfect. There’s lots of things we could do. But we try hard. And we’re always learning, and we are always, you know, engaging and talking about what it is to work at FSP, you know, ensuring that everybody is treated with dignity and respect. And people are really at the front and center of the organisation and that, and that’s what drives the business, I think.
So yeah, you know, we are, it’s great that we’ve been recognised for what we do and how we do it. And it means we can deliver the services that we deliver as well. And, you know, I’ve worked in HR long enough to know, and I’ve talked to enough executive teams, and within the organisations that I work, if you get the people stuff, right, the rest of it will happen. So, you know, your ability to drive productivity to drive efficiency, the discretionary effort that people give, is amazing, people don’t come to work to do a rubbish job. People come to work to be able to thrive, and experience, you know, opportunities to develop and that kind of stuff. And, and when you create that sort of environment, the power of that is, is just amazing, you know, amazing.
How have different types of people, different personality types coped with the enforced changes?
Simon Grosse
I think the bit that we were trying to avoid in the classification was the classic sort of introvert-extrovert thing, its a lot more nuanced than that. But I think in the beginning, we’ve got lots of consultants and lots of technical people and change people. But broadly, you know, I would say we’ve got quite a lot of introverts in our, in our organisation, particularly on the technical side. And, you know, many of our staff thrived in the beginning in COVID, and enjoyed the extra balance and we’re quite comfortable with the remote working. I think that’s shifted. Now I think people are a bit done with it. Extroverts, like myself, have probably not enjoyed any of it. Because generally, I don’t, don’t like being cooped up in there in the house for too long that I guess, you know, the whole thing, like I said, is a lot more grey than just black and white between the different personality types. There are layers, do you share that share that view?
Liz Rogers
Yeah, I think it is the proper kind of Corona coaster thing, isn’t it from an emotional point of view, and, and, you know, talking to lots of my colleagues, talking to lots of my colleagues, with lots of different personality types you can see it kind of coming in waves. So they’ll be okay, I’m okay. All is good. And well, and then that’ll be like, this is relentless. You know, I could really do a seeing some people other than my family, as much as we love them, you know, you need to see other people as part of your we’re social creatures aren’t we were kind of tribal. We’re social creatures, we need that interaction. And so but I think for me, it’s kind of almost that wave effect where people are okay. And then they’ll have a bit of a dip, and then they’re okay again. But yeah, it all is a bit relentless right now.
And we’ve also had some great support because we’ve got an amazing business coach, and if someone wants to tell you a bit more about Katherine, who’s done some fabulous sessions for us about coping with the whole of the if the lockdown situation and tag to be resourceful and how to look after ourselves. And I think that’s really helped lots of people in the business segment.
Simon Grosse
Yeah, so we’ve been working actually with an external performance coach who comes from a sports team Team GB sports backgrounds. So really interesting, really interesting character. Katherine Bond, who is not only as worked in elite sport, but is also a qualified psychologist. This was all-around performance coaching and recognising the difference between, you know, true Performance and Results.
“Does it make the boat go faster?”
Simon Grosse
That’s one of my favourite sayings as well, guests, we’ve had Ben Davis, present to the team once before, and it’s it’s something that really sticks with you that does it make the boat go faster? But yeah, I think to, to what Liz was was talking about there is just helping people adapt to isolation, remote working, balancing family life. And dealing with change and and how to cope psychologically and practically about the things that you need to do. And a lot of it is about recognising the things in your control thinking about self care. And, you know, that well being aspects and the importance of mental health, and being very conscious about the choices we make, is something that’s always been front of mind for us as an organisation. And, you know, I don’t want to come across on this as playing our own trumpet either, because I think that, you know, there have been a number of people in our business that have absolutely struggled with, with mental health and well being and regardless of the level of intent and support that we put in place, of course, like everywhere, people do, you know, do go under, from time to time, and our place is no different. But it’s been invaluable, having sort of an external perspective, looking in and saying, look, actually, let me let me try and help you with some of these things. Because you guys are in it. And it’s been hugely valuable for us having that expertise available.
How do you drive value from data /technology for your business? Are you on a cloud journey – which cloud? And are you there yet?
Simon Grosse
I’ll speak a little bit more holistically, I guess about it in the, you know, the journey of recognising data as an asset and thinking about what are those building blocks? What’s the journey for us about building a maturity curve and thinking about data as an asset and how we how we think about current state future state, and then ultimately thinking about, you know, what are we doing with employee data? What are we doing with customer data? How are we capturing that, and there are a series of things that we’ve done to increase our maturity, even during the COVID period, because, you know, we’ve had to be more resilient in that way.
In terms of the cloud pace, 90x %, probably 95% of our business is running in the cloud. You know, we’re, we’re obviously aiming to be great advocates for Microsoft platform based on what we do. So, you know, we do a lot in in in 365, and dynamics, we’ve also developed our own IP product, pulse 360, which is much more focused around employee data and analytics and feedback.
So ultimately, being able to look at ways of how our employee basis feeling from a sentiment point of view, asking questions, capturing data. And looking at shifts over time, I guess, you know, where it gets really interesting when we when we start to build this bank of data is courses then thinking about, you know, the, the AI technologies that will ultimately be really helpful for us and you know, what, what trends will look like at the moment we can do internally in our business, we can do some basic level of data analytics, but I think where it gets really interesting is when we’ve got you know, the volumes of data We can really start to predict what the future might look like. And that’s, that’s a really exciting place for us to be internally.
And also, I suppose we’ve seen a massive upturn about customers consulting with us about looking at, you know, how they think about data, how they think about the architecture, how they, how they start to think about data for a competitive advantage, and as a really integral part of their transformation journey. I know, Liz, in particular, who works very closely with one of our reputable retailers, very reputable British retailers, I think has sort of been on that journey, as well with some of the consulting work that, that you and the team have done. Cool.
Liz Rogers
Yeah, I think it’s interesting. So, So, I, you know, I’m always gonna think about data from an HR perspective, right? Because that’s, that’s my space, I guess. And yes, I’m it’s right, from a consulting point of view. For me, it’s always going to be the so what question is great gathering data data? So what what are you going to do with it? How is it going to drive your decision making how to get a try for business performance?
And if I come back to the kind of employee type data, so you know, and we’ve done some stuff in change, but outside the tech as well, if that makes sense. So because the skills we’ve got across the change team, and we’ve been introduced and had conversations about kind of the more the HR, the people space, and especially with power 360. And I think the bit for me is you gather the staff, right? This is my non tech way describing you get your data, you get your information. So what are you going to do with it? So a proper piece of analysis needs to be done. And then you need to start thinking about and what different is going to going to make, for example, what we do within our people space? So I’m quite interested in the HR AI type information that is starting to close.
Are you looking at making predictions using your data? Like identifying employee churn etc?
Liz Rogers
Yeah, absolutely. So, So what are the markers? What and Where are the flags being raised? where somebody is a flight risk, basically. So and if you think about it from a bigger picture perspective, then yeah, you will, you will always need some level of tune, okay, in your organisation to keep you fresh and innovative. And that’s okay. You know, What you don’t want is, is big numbers, big turnover. And what you want to be able to do is, is minimise your flight risk, especially in key posts, for example. And, but for me, it’s about that, why is it that somebody wants to lead, you know, so understanding what it is, it is something that you’re doing as an organisation that you need to look at, you need to think about so and how then does that information impact on your people piece, it could be the other end of the spectrum could be on the recruitment side as well. So if you’re, if you are looking at the diversity of your organisation, and we all know, we know, we all know the value that diversity will bring to an organisation. So why are you not attracting particular candidates into your business? So you need to be looking at the data around that for, for example. And I think, you know, also, it’s about, again, it’s not from an HR point of view is about not being afraid of it, okay, using it to the benefit in the business, but fundamentally to the benefit of your employees. So so you know, it’s not it is partly commercial, but it’s bigger than that as well for me. So creating that great place to work supporting your customers to create great places to work as well. And using that data in a very sensitive, like you said, the ethics are really, really important here. And that’s a bit that scares people and worries people, and rightly so because if you get it wrong, you get it mentally well. Just to name one. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But it can also be really informative when you send the right way and help you create great places to work. So I think that’s important.
Lead and Lag?
Simon Grosse
Yeah, it was actually going to be a point I was just gonna chip in there with Mark, because it’s exactly that, you know, the lead, the lag indicators are all the things you’ve just described, basically, they’re fed up, or they’re going to leave, or they’re going to be a negative and negative voice in the organisation. But the the lead indicators will be things like, how do they trust in the organisation? How do they feel about the leadership? How do they feel about their learning opportunity in the in the organisation? Do they have clarity over the job? Do they feel connected to the business’s purpose?
You know, there are a whole wide range of aspects that constitute, I suppose, the building blocks for a fulfilled happy employee? I’m not a big fan of the term, you know, how happy are you? Or works? I’m not sure if it’s all about happiness, I think it’s also about fulfillment and purpose. But if we think about it in a sort of net promoter score, NPS type sense. And go back to the piece about data, what we’re all the time trying to capture is? What are the ingredients of a returning happy, fulfilled customer? And what are the ingredients of a happy, fulfilled employee. And of course, the common thing, it’s not rocket science, but the common thing is that between the employee and the customers that they will trust in the organisation.
And what you’re really doing is, is then looking at those leading indicators that constitute trust. And, you know, what we do is we try and ask leading questions. So we ask a question a week, basically, via our platform, that takes 30 seconds for our employees to complete. We don’t do that frequently with our customers, I think it would drive them insane. But 30 seconds a week, isn’t, isn’t too bad. But what we try and do is ask leading indicators of our employees about how do you feel about these topics. And of course, during COVID, we pivoted that, because what we’d be asking is sort of fairly specific questions much more around wellbeing, and much more around the conditions that and the platforms that they’ve got to work. So for example, you know, basic stuff, if somebody is working from, you know, the bedroom, and they’ve not got a suitable office environment, that’s a, that’s a big issue, if they’re going to be like that for months on end, very obvious stuff. But what we’re really then doing is capturing all the leading indicators that matter along the way. So I think it’s a really interesting point and Mark about the difference between leading and lagging when you’re trying to capture data, because it’s no point, you know, just looking at the lag.
Liz Rogers
As soon as you know it, your annual survey is at a point in time, what you want is that continual reflection and that pulse taking all the way through. Because situations, the playing field changes, just like on a week by week, month by month basis, an organisation changes so much over 12 month period as to the individuals within that organisation. And by taking those those frequent pass points, where you’re not sitting down asking your Team 50 questions and 10 questions, and they’re really fed up with it, actually. And they’re just put anything down without kind of, you know, filling it as you would like them to fill it. And it is not overwhelming. It’s not overbearing, and then you can immediately do and I’ll always come back to this when it comes to employee engagement is you said we did. So whenever you asked a question, you are then having to fulfill deal with the answer to that question. Yeah. So if you’ve set the expectation by asking employees what they think and what they feel, you need to then go and address it. You can’t forget about it. And they will. Yeah. Okay, we’ll come back to it in six months time, you have to do that you said this. And as a result of that, we’ve, you know, this is a really interesting area for us. We are going to do X, Y and Zed, and you start that dialogue, you start that communication.
Question 5 Who do you think should be driving an organisations adoption of digital transformation?
Liz Rogers
People, absolutely. Everybody across the business, everybody has a role to play. And your senior leadership team need to be talking about the why from the, from the strategic and efficient point of view. So why are we doing this, what differences are going to make to us, there needs to be driven through the organisation by the management teams and the management structures, because, you know, various models and change information, you know, theory will tell you that employees do tend to listen more to their line managers and what they listen to the Executive team, you know, the senior leadership team, so those managers need to be bought into that, that, that vision and that strategy and approach.
And then you know, it’s not with my IT colleagues in the room, the virtual room, the minute you plan something, an IT projects off, the organisation switches off. Yeah, and because and they go, it’s not my problem, you know, it’s not for me to worry about it’s an IT project. And it’s not this, this is about a, you know, an organisational change project. And you focus it on the organisational change piece, and you’ve landed much better than you budget as an IT project.
Simon Grosse
I’m a big believer of collective and collaborative leadership. So I think it’s a coming together of senior leaders, and bearing in mind, what does digital transformation mean? Well, that is always the information in the cons tech transformation is taking the organisation in a new and positive direction to drive fundamental change. And so, you know, a lot of our ways in are through forward-thinking modern CIOs or CTOs. Great, but they also need to top-down cross involvement from lots of different people.
Question 6 What advice would you give your younger self or those starting out or changing their career to work in the IT industry?
Liz Rogers
I think it’s a great question. If I said to me five years ago, you’d be working in tech, and I would have gone Nope, that’s never gonna happen. And so I think it’s never seen ever, for a start. I think the only you know, things like the only person holding you back is you, nobody else is going to do it, you know, be master of your own destiny, and take opportunities that are presented to you, and you won’t make a wrong decision. And, you know, you learn from everything that you do, I think actually, also thinks that be generous with your time for other people. You know, value others, for their experience, what they can bring, again, from the diversity point of view, every Day’s a learning day. I know that’s a bit cheesy, but it absolutely is, you know, what you can buy by engaging, listening, working with other people, you just it brings so much value to what you do. And I think, you know, what I’ve been able to do it is, is use the transferable skills that I’ve got. So I think, you know, saying I’m only gonna work in one sector, or I’m only going to work in one sort of role is just closes down so many potential opportunities for, for you as an individual. So I say never, never say never and use the skills you’ve got and focus on the skills that you’ve gotten develop and how you can use them in new environments. So yeah, it was quite a question. Thank you.
Simon Grosse
Yeah, probably. I mean, the obvious thing is, if I was, you know, advising my younger self, the first thing is there’s no substitute for, for really applying yourself and working hard. That’s, that’s the first thing. The second thing is insight is much more around, there’s a lot of power and enjoyment of living your values. And being a good human being. And sometimes in business, in particular, depends in what field you work. But being being a good human being kind isn’t a substitute for being ambitious, you can do both.
So I think you can be you can be successful, you know, if you work in a commercial business, or if you work in a non-profit, you can drive whatever success means to view and still be a good human. That’s, that’s, you know, acting in a wholesome and sustainable way. And that’s the thing that I think is the most important because otherwise, you end up just striving for a lag outcome that you might not actually enjoy 10-20 years down the line.
So when you live in your values, the advice is, pick an organisation where you can actually live those bodies. And that’s really, really important is that values match wherever you choose to develop your career with actually being true to yourself.
Question 7: Tell me a fun fact about yourself that perhaps nobody else knows about you?
Simon Grosse
Simon claims to be a very boring man then tells us the story of how he found he was going to be the dad for the fifth and sixth time when his wife told him they were expecting, and that turned out to be identical twin boys, children one to four for were all daughters
Liz Rogers
Liz is related to the first Welshman to win an oscar. Her grandfather’s cousin, uncle Reg. Who is Ray Miland won an oscar for his role in the film “The Lost Weekend”.
Previous Episodes
You can view the previous episodes of our Putting the Human Back into Technology podcast here:
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